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  #26  
Old 09-22-2019, 11:21 AM
Kelly Gruene Kelly Gruene is online now
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Originally Posted by Jim2Dokes View Post
Haha Kelly out-coached Kirby all game. Talent overcame. Y’all are ridiculous. Same people thinking Harbaugh is a better coach.You know Tennessee recruits better than ND right? Texas? UCLA? We can play this game, fact is we were up against a 3rd, 2nd and 3rd ranked class versus > 10 and maybe should have won.
Exactly.
ND has great O and D coordinators and a head coach that is just outside the Saban-Meyer group.
Hopefully neither of the coordinators gets poached this year. USC is looking for a coach. After Michigan loses to OSU again they will be looking. Florida State will be looking.
Blame this game on the coaching if you must.
I think that by the end of this season any of those programs would leap at any of ND's top three coaches.

Last edited by Kelly Gruene; 09-22-2019 at 11:51 AM.
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  #27  
Old 09-22-2019, 11:23 AM
Kelly Gruene Kelly Gruene is online now
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Originally Posted by Frankus View Post
Maybe we should be able to run for more than 46 yards and get in 3rd and short situations , instead of dink and dunking to consistent 3rd and long situations, with a 3rd down pass that doesn't even reach the first down marker. Pitiful coaching and scheme. Kelly's a big game failure for this very reason. It's a **** scheme.
I can't believe how bitter you are about this outcome.
It was a great scheme. ND recognized Georgia's superior defensive strength and game-planned effectively for it.
Finke makes that catch instead of bobbling it and that third quarter goes entirely differently.

It would be great if ND would win a game like this. It is my contention that they just may have if the catches had been made and the offensive line held still until the ball was snapped. You see it through a darker lens and that's fine.

Last edited by Kelly Gruene; 09-22-2019 at 11:33 AM.
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  #28  
Old 09-22-2019, 11:34 AM
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Have to agree with the "talent won out" theory on this one. That 4th quarter INT was pure skill/instinct and nothing else. I'm not sure we have a safety that makes that play (and I LOVE our safeties). Swift is so much faster than any of our backs that this alone alters their game plan vs ours (made it through that point without using a swift pun to describe his speed!).

My only criticism of Kelly was his use of the last timeout in the 1st half. I'll be off a bit in the numbers because I'm going from memory altered by beer/scotch, but I believe our 1st down play ended at 24 seconds. A timeout wasn't called until 12 seconds. Then 2 weak looking fade patterns were run at the risk of running out of clock before kicking the field goal. Why? Why did he let that clock run and not call a timeout immediately? We could have allowed a play to develop in that time and had way more options. Even Gary Daniellson took the SEC's **** out of his mouth for a minute to question this.
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  #29  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim2Dokes View Post
That was the best offensive game plan I have seen in awhile. We donít have a run game, itís clear. Georgia knew it, they adapted and ran the best game plan to win the game, fell short. Itís funny, I was reading the GA forums and they say Book is amazing and Fromm was average. They said with no run game it was amazing what he was able to accomplish. GA fans giving more props to this team then our own fans smh at this board. This was a fn great game!
The idea that an offensive line of 4 and 5 stars on offense can't run block, while a defensive line of 3 stars can stop the run tells me it's scheme not personnel.

Book played amazing? Completing 29-47 for 275 YDS with 2 TD and 2 INT is hardly "amazing". His QB rating was 41.7. If he had played "amazing", we might have won. He didn't and (again) we lost.
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  #30  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadianIrish View Post
Have to agree with the "talent won out" theory on this one. That 4th quarter INT was pure skill/instinct and nothing else. I'm not sure we have a safety that makes that play (and I LOVE our safeties). Swift is so much faster than any of our backs that this alone alters their game plan vs ours (made it through that point without using a swift pun to describe his speed!).
What a lot of crap. Book one armed a slow pitch on the run to a stationary Finke. This is the kind of late throw that often gets intercepted. It didn't take some special talent to make that pick. He should have thrown the ball away.
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  #31  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelly Gruene View Post
I can't believe how bitter you are about this outcome.
It was a great scheme. ND recognized Georgia's superior defensive strength and game-planned effectively for it.
Finke makes that catch instead of bobbling it and that third quarter goes entirely differently.
ND didn't scheme anything. We are a dink and dunk scheme and last night was more of the same. There's always some excuse, or what if, from you guys. We lost. Again. If it makes you feel better that it was closer than expected have at it, but don't expect the other fans who are sick of always losing to act as if we're happy after watching 10 years of the same old ****.
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  #32  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:19 PM
Kelly Gruene Kelly Gruene is online now
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ND didn't scheme anything. We are a dink and dunk scheme and last night was more of the same. There's always some excuse, or what if, from you guys. We lost. Again. If it makes you feel better that it was closer than expected have at it, but don't expect the other fans who are sick of always losing to act as if we're happy after watching 10 years of the same old ****.
I have no expectation of other fans.
I appreciate passion.
I have passion too. I have expectations.
You and I differ on expectations and time frames. No issue with that.
I'm just not going to get so worked up that my forehead veins are popping and I'm having to have blood pressure medications prescribed.
I like this team and these coaches. I think if they can keep this group of coaches together (maybe minus Quinn?) they can and will win a championship despite the restrictions imposed by the University.
I don't expect others to agree with that.
It's a discussion forum. Public discourse.
Passion is great.
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  #33  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelly Gruene View Post
I have no expectation of other fans.
I appreciate passion.
I have passion too. I have expectations.
You and I differ on expectations and time frames. No issue with that.
I'm just not going to get so worked up that my forehead veins are popping and I'm having to have blood pressure medications prescribed.
I like this team and these coaches. I think if they can keep this group of coaches together (maybe minus Quinn?) they can and will win a championship despite the restrictions imposed by the University.
I don't expect others to agree with that.
It's a discussion forum. Public discourse.
Passion is great.
Dude. My veins aren't popping lol. The only way Kelly will ever win a NC is if he has a generational QB with and a stable of much faster receivers. After 10 years of failing to recruit what he needs, the likelihood of that happening in the future is very, very small.
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  #34  
Old 09-22-2019, 03:11 PM
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Even if Finke caught the ball, I don't think we would've scored in the third the way we were going offensively.
Maybe not scored, but I believe that was for a first around the 35 or so. Maybe they get another first and then they punt. Either way, ND puts them back at their own end and Georgia has to travel the field with ND "leading" still by 3. That was such a momentum killer. Sorry to harp on it.
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  #35  
Old 09-22-2019, 03:16 PM
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Frankus, I'm usually agreeing with you about the loss and tired of it. But yesterday didn't feel like the losses in the past. I won't be ashamed of walking into work tomorrow for the first time since 94' after a big game loss. This felt different. Sometimes the better team just wins. It's just that simple. That's what happened on that night. Shoot, I'm surprised you're this fired up when you have been telling the board the past 5 years that ND will never be the same because the administration doesn't care enough for ND to ever win again. You now seem surprised by this result?
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  #36  
Old 09-22-2019, 03:30 PM
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Dude. My veins aren't popping lol. The only way Kelly will ever win a NC is if he has a generational QB with and a stable of much faster receivers. After 10 years of failing to recruit what he needs, the likelihood of that happening in the future is very, very small.
Thatís how everyone except Alabama wins championships. There are only so many of those guys around. If Nd gets one, theyíll be a contender, if they donít, they are a fringe top 5 team. It isnít complicated.
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  #37  
Old 09-22-2019, 05:12 PM
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Thatís how everyone except Alabama wins championships. There are only so many of those guys around. If Nd gets one, theyíll be a contender, if they donít, they are a fringe top 5 team. It isnít complicated.
Frankus will never be able to accept what modern day college football is and where notre dame is in it.
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  #38  
Old 09-22-2019, 06:16 PM
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Frankus will never be able to accept what modern day college football is and where notre dame is in it.
Nonsense. Georgia looks a lot like Notre Dame during the Ara and Devine eras. They run the ball to set up the pass and never give up on the run. They are rarely in 3rd and long situations, which makes runs and short passes to move the chains on 3rd down easier. They take control of the game in the second half as they wear down the defense. They play disciplined ball. The one mistake they made (the dropped punt) they don't make often. There's nothing "modern" about the way they play. The idea that, with 8 offensive linemen that are 4 or 5 stars, we can't run the football has more to Kelly's lousy system than ND's place in the modern era.
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  #39  
Old 09-22-2019, 06:17 PM
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Kelly isn't going to recruit his way into being elite. He's 10 years in. His legacy is cast in stone.
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Originally Posted by Frankus View Post
Dude. My veins aren't popping lol. The only way Kelly will ever win a NC is if he has a generational QB with and a stable of much faster receivers. After 10 years of failing to recruit what he needs, the likelihood of that happening in the future is very, very small.
These two posts don't jive.
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  #40  
Old 09-22-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by corysold View Post
Thatís how everyone except Alabama wins championships. There are only so many of those guys around. If Nd gets one, theyíll be a contender, if they donít, they are a fringe top 5 team. It isnít complicated.
Yet, even with Trevor Lawrence and Fromm, you're not going to see Clemson put the entire game on their shoulders. Some of the multi dimensional QB's sure. Guys like Watson and Murray can do it all. I think if Kelly does get a generational talent, he'd need a Watson/Murray type to win it all.
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  #41  
Old 09-22-2019, 06:34 PM
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These two posts don't jive.
Yeah, you're right. I gave Kelly a slight bit of daylight with, "the likelihood of that happening in the future is very, very small." I don't think he'll ever win a NC. I hope I'm wrong.
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  #42  
Old 09-22-2019, 07:06 PM
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Nonsense. Georgia looks a lot like Notre Dame during the Ara and Devine eras. They run the ball to set up the pass and never give up on the run. They are rarely in 3rd and long situations, which makes runs and short passes to move the chains on 3rd down easier. They take control of the game in the second half as they wear down the defense. They play disciplined ball. The one mistake they made (the dropped punt) they don't make often. There's nothing "modern" about the way they play. The idea that, with 8 offensive linemen that are 4 or 5 stars, we can't run the football has more to Kelly's lousy system than ND's place in the modern era.
8 if Georgiaís first 12 plays were passes. They were 3 and 4 wide much of the first half.
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  #43  
Old 09-22-2019, 07:41 PM
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Just a thought. I think the one play we could had run to that might had been productive was the draw. Just a note for future reference against a team that rushes up the field so fast..
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  #44  
Old 09-24-2019, 12:45 AM
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8 if Georgiaís first 12 plays were passes. They were 3 and 4 wide much of the first half.
They ran the ball 33 times, we ran it 14.
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  #45  
Old 09-24-2019, 01:46 AM
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Nonsense. Georgia looks a lot like Notre Dame during the Ara and Devine eras. They run the ball to set up the pass and never give up on the run. They are rarely in 3rd and long situations, which makes runs and short passes to move the chains on 3rd down easier. They take control of the game in the second half as they wear down the defense. They play disciplined ball. The one mistake they made (the dropped punt) they don't make often. There's nothing "modern" about the way they play. The idea that, with 8 offensive linemen that are 4 or 5 stars, we can't run the football has more to Kelly's lousy system than ND's place in the modern era.
That's not what I mean. Notre dame cant recruit the players at that level that consistently in this day and age. Maybe it's just a pure kelly issue because I agree hes proven not to be able to handle the biggest of games time and time again. Win 1 or 2 of those and maybe things change on the recruiting or maybe we as nd fans have to accept kids dont want to do school these days and everyone gets to play on TV. Nd doesn't have the advantages it did in the 70s on many fronts. It's just the difficult truth.

The more college football becomes less about academics and more of an nfl minor league the worse for nd.
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  #46  
Old 09-24-2019, 03:47 AM
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That's not what I mean. Notre dame cant recruit the players at that level that consistently in this day and age. Maybe it's just a pure kelly issue because I agree hes proven not to be able to handle the biggest of games time and time again. Win 1 or 2 of those and maybe things change on the recruiting or maybe we as nd fans have to accept kids dont want to do school these days and everyone gets to play on TV. Nd doesn't have the advantages it did in the 70s on many fronts. It's just the difficult truth.

The more college football becomes less about academics and more of an nfl minor league the worse for nd.
College football has not been about the academics for decades.

I truly believe that Kelly's ceiling for recruiting at Notre Dame is lower than it might be for other coaches. I believe that this ceiling is self-imposed to some extent since I do not think that he puts the time and effort into recruiting that other coaches do. I also think that Kelly's lack of experience at any other top recruiting program has hurt him since he has had to learn on the job and was never was able to see how a Top 5 recruiting operation worked in person.

Is Kelly getting the absolute best classes possible at ND? If so, then a Saban, Meyer, or Sweeney would get exactly the same level of classes if they coached at ND. However, if you think that they would recruit Top 10 or even Top 5 at ND instead of Top 15, then one must acknowledge that Kelly is not recruiting at maximum potential either because he is not as good at recruiting or does not work as hard (or a combination of both).
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  #47  
Old 09-26-2019, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelly Gruene View Post
Exactly.
ND has great O and D coordinators and a head coach that is just outside the Saban-Meyer group.
Hopefully neither of the coordinators gets poached this year. USC is looking for a coach. After Michigan loses to OSU again they will be looking. Florida State will be looking.
Blame this game on the coaching if you must.
I think that by the end of this season any of those programs would leap at any of ND's top three coaches.
I agree. We really need to keep Lea. He is an excellent coach and future head coaching material (at ND, I hope).
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