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  #1  
Old 05-07-2020, 05:24 PM
jbrown_9999 jbrown_9999 is offline
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Default Final 2021 recruiting ranking?

Given the current # 10 ranking for the 2021 class (after being #1 for awhile), just curious if people think that Brian Kelly will hold on to have a Top 15 class for the first time in three years? Do you think that he might actually have a single digit class for the first time in the last 8 or 9 years? Is he more likely to have a Top 16 or higher class than a Top 9 or lower?
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2020, 06:11 PM
golson5 golson5 is offline
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Originally Posted by jbrown_9999 View Post
Given the current # 10 ranking for the 2021 class (after being #1 for awhile), just curious if people think that Brian Kelly will hold on to have a Top 15 class for the first time in three years? Do you think that he might actually have a single digit class for the first time in the last 8 or 9 years? Is he more likely to have a Top 16 or higher class than a Top 9 or lower?
The only reason last years class wasn't ranked top 15 is because we took a low amount of players. In terms of quality, it was easily a top 15 class.

This year I see us finishing anywhere between 8 and 15. Probably 11 thru 13 most realistic because we might only take 19 or 20
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Old 05-07-2020, 06:22 PM
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He just doesn’t have a personality that attracts kids these days. They want to feel like they’re wanted and we’ve heard stories of Kelly ignoring recruits/commits. Swinney has a gravitating personality. When I hear Dabo speak, I want to suit up and run through a wall. Same goes for Fleck.

Kelly is not a great recruiter, Notre Dame recruits for itself. Look at Weis, put a little effort in and you can land numerous five stars. Kelly is a better recruiter overall than Weis because he’s created depth at every position. However, our lack of 5 star talent has shown to be detrimental in big games.
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Old 05-07-2020, 06:43 PM
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Unless they can flip some players it looks like the majority of the rest of this class will be 3 star players. I think that means ND ends up in the top 15. Without an Urban or Dabo charismatic type coach I don't think ND ever has a top 5 recruiting class. I do believe they can put a team on the field that can beat the Clemsons, Bama's and OSU's. They need to get high 4 stars at every position group every 3 recruiting cyles. They may not have the quality of depth of the top 5 teams but enough to beat them on any given Saturday.
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Old 05-07-2020, 07:26 PM
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Unless they can flip some players it looks like the majority of the rest of this class will be 3 star players. I think that means ND ends up in the top 15. Without an Urban or Dabo charismatic type coach I don't think ND ever has a top 5 recruiting class. I do believe they can put a team on the field that can beat the Clemsons, Bama's and OSU's. They need to get high 4 stars at every position group every 3 recruiting cyles. They may not have the quality of depth of the top 5 teams but enough to beat them on any given Saturday.
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Old 05-07-2020, 07:29 PM
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Unless they can flip some players it looks like the majority of the rest of this class will be 3 star players.
You’re probably correct. However, there are still several 4 Stars left on the board for OL, WR, and CB that we could land. However, it seems unlikely. Especially, if we cannot get these recruits on campus soon.
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Old 05-08-2020, 02:26 AM
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Like someone said they would have been top 15 last year if it wasn’t for only taking 17 and they took a LS....and an unknown from Germany. This year will definitely be a top 15 class. Sure we lost out on a 5 star RB ...I thought he would get us into the top 10 easy without him I think we’ll end up just outside of top 10. It is still very early in the recruiting process and I think our new younger coaches are doing a good job.
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:26 AM
jbrown_9999 jbrown_9999 is offline
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One point to note is that it is easier to have a higher average when you are bringing in less kids. The challenge (and the mark of great recruiters) is to bring in both quantity and quality in a single class. Unfortunately, Kelly seems to only do one or the other.

Last edited by jbrown_9999; 05-08-2020 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:21 PM
jbrown_9999 jbrown_9999 is offline
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Is Brian Kelly really recruiting better than ever? I guess I keep waiting for the recruiting services to realize that they have mis-evaluated BK's recruits since half of his current commits (5/10) are not even in the Top 300.

North Carolina having 10/14 recruits in the Top 300 concerns me since they are a basketball school. Can Kelly's 2021 class catch the Tarheels by Signing Day?
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown_9999 View Post
Is Brian Kelly really recruiting better than ever? I guess I keep waiting for the recruiting services to realize that they have mis-evaluated BK's recruits since half of his current commits (5/10) are not even in the Top 300.

North Carolina having 10/14 recruits in the Top 300 concerns me since they are a basketball school. Can Kelly's 2021 class catch the Tarheels by Signing Day?
If there is a season they can catch them. If not, who knows. Like I said in another thread, the rankings this year may be with the lack of/limited evaluation.
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Old 05-19-2020, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown_9999 View Post
Is Brian Kelly really recruiting better than ever? I guess I keep waiting for the recruiting services to realize that they have mis-evaluated BK's recruits since half of his current commits (5/10) are not even in the Top 300.

North Carolina having 10/14 recruits in the Top 300 concerns me since they are a basketball school. Can Kelly's 2021 class catch the Tarheels by Signing Day?
Do you complain about BK in every recruiting post? Are you obsessed?
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:49 PM
jbrown_9999 jbrown_9999 is offline
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Do you complain about BK in every recruiting post? Are you obsessed?
I started this thread to talk specifically about BK's 2021 recruiting class ranking.

I believe that recruiting is one of the single most important aspects to college football excellance.

Some people including other posters seem to think that very few coaches could have recruited better at ND than Brian Kelly over the past 10 years. There are many who also think that Kelly is recruiting better now than ever before.

I disagree and truly believe that Brian Kelly has recruited below the ceiling at Notre Dame. He seemed to put more time and energy into recruiting when he first started at ND and had his only single digit recruiting classes in two of his first three full classes (#9 in 2011 and #5 in 2013).

Since then, he has never finished better than #10 and had his worst two combined years in the past two years (#17 and #16).

Brian Kelly said after last season that he finally realized that he needed to try to recruit Top 5 classes. Was this mere words or did it change anything? Since then, his 2021 class has slipped from #1 early on to currently being #11 with schools like North Carolina, Iowa, and Minnesota being ahead of him. He is closer to being #16 than to being #5.

Folks may argue that he has less recruits commited and will move up by signing day but he also has other schools with even less commits below him who will probably leap frog him to keep him out of the Top 10. Schools like Alabama, Oregon, Georgia, and Olahoma.

From 2006 to 2008, Charlie Weis had no schools beat him recruiting all three years, only two schools finish ahead of him twice, and eight more that only beat one of those three years.

In the last three years, Kelly has had 7 schools beat him all three years (compared to zero for Weis), 16 schools beat him two or more years (compared to 2 for Weis) , and 17 schools beat him at least once (compared to 10 for Weis)

The above is why I am concerned about Kelly's recruiting (or lack thereof)

Last edited by jbrown_9999; 05-19-2020 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:15 PM
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I started this thread to talk specifically about BK's 2021 recruiting class ranking.

I believe that recruiting is one of the single most important aspects to college football excellance.

Some people including other posters seem to think that very few coaches could have recruited better at ND than Brian Kelly over the past 10 years. There are many who also think that Kelly is recruiting better now than ever before.

I disagree and truly believe that Brian Kelly has recruited below the ceiling at Notre Dame. He seemed to put more time and energy into recruiting when he first started at ND and had his only single digit recruiting classes in two of his first three full classes (#9 in 2011 and #5 in 2013).

Since then, he has never finished better than #10 and had his worst two combined years in the past two years (#17 and #16).

Brian Kelly said after last season that he finally realized that he needed to try to recruit Top 5 classes. Was this mere words or did it change anything? Since then, his 2021 class has slipped from #1 early on to currently being #11 with schools like North Carolina, Iowa, and Minnesota being ahead of him. He is closer to being #16 than to being #5.

Folks may argue that he has less recruits commited and will move up by signing day but he also has other schools with even less commits below him who will probably leap frog him to keep him out of the Top 10. Schools like Alabama, Oregon, Georgia, and Olahoma.

From 2006 to 2008, Charlie Weis had no schools beat him recruiting all three years, only two schools finish ahead of him twice, and eight more that only beat one of those three years.

In the last three years, Kelly has had 7 schools beat him all three years (compared to zero for Weis), 16 schools beat him two or more years (compared to 2 for Weis) , and 17 schools beat him at least once (compared to 10 for Weis)

The above is why I am concerned about Kelly's recruiting (or lack thereof)
He didnt say that he finally realized that he needs to recruit top 5 classes. He said he feels it is possible now to do so.

The recruiting industry wasnt as good in the Weis days. Those classes were not top classes. There was a ND bias. Kellys classes are more balanced and overall much better than Weis.

Last yr we only took 17 players so our class was lower. But in terms of quality it was ranked 10th.

This year's class is high in quality as well. We will be fine. We're recruiting well
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:53 PM
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He didnt say that he finally realized that he needs to recruit top 5 classes. He said he feels it is possible now to do so.

The recruiting industry wasnt as good in the Weis days. Those classes were not top classes. There was a ND bias. Kellys classes are more balanced and overall much better than Weis.

Last yr we only took 17 players so our class was lower. But in terms of quality it was ranked 10th.

This year's class is high in quality as well. We will be fine. We're recruiting well
Kelly may think it is possible but he does not seem to doing what he needs to do to achieve a Top 5 class.

Even last year's "high in quality" class was only the 10th best in terms of avarage rating and there were 9 other teams with both higher quality and more commits.

You may believe that Kelly is "recruiting well" but I think that he could recruit even better if he put everything he had into recruiting like the coaches who consistently beat him in the rankings. He also has hired assistants who have proven to be less than the best recruiters which is a direct reflection on Kelly's ability as a head coach.

His recruiting is consistently Top 20 not Top 10 and that is a major reason why he has only finished in the Top 10 twice in his career.
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:19 PM
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Kelly may think it is possible but he does not seem to doing what he needs to do to achieve a Top 5 class.

Even last year's "high in quality" class was only the 10th best in terms of avarage rating and there were 9 other teams with both higher quality and more commits.

You may believe that Kelly is "recruiting well" but I think that he could recruit even better if he put everything he had into recruiting like the coaches who consistently beat him in the rankings. He also has hired assistants who have proven to be less than the best recruiters which is a direct reflection on Kelly's ability as a head coach.

His recruiting is consistently Top 20 not Top 10 and that is a major reason why he has only finished in the Top 10 twice in his career.
This class is really good right now, unfortunately we got hit with the covid. But still a really good class

Only 10th, like that is bad lol.

So Kelly is a poor recruiter and he hires poor recruiters yet we recruit top 15 classes consistently, interesting.
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:08 PM
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This class is really good right now, unfortunately we got hit with the covid. But still a really good class

Only 10th, like that is bad lol.

So Kelly is a poor recruiter and he hires poor recruiters yet we recruit top 15 classes consistently, interesting.
I have not said that Kelly is a poor recruiter. I have said that I believe that he can recruit better at ND than he has. I believe that he does not work as hard or as effectively as other head coaches and he has hired some assistants who were poor recruiters.

It is a matter of expectations. Given that I grew up with Devine and Holtz winning championships, I would like to see Notre Dame win another one before I die.

If you are happy with Top 20 results, then Top 20 recruiting is OK.

If you want to win a NC, then Top 20 recruiting will not cut it.

If you think that a Saban, Meyer, or Dabo could recruit Top 10 or even Top 5 classes at Notre Dame (which I do), then the limiting factor given the recent Top 20 classes is the head coach not the institution or its set of unique characteristics - some which help recruiting and some which hurt.
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Old 05-20-2020, 04:26 PM
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I have not said that Kelly is a poor recruiter. I have said that I believe that he can recruit better at ND than he has. I believe that he does not work as hard or as effectively as other head coaches and he has hired some assistants who were poor recruiters.

It is a matter of expectations. Given that I grew up with Devine and Holtz winni

ng championships, I would like to see Notre Dame win another one before I die.

If you are happy with Top 20 results, then Top 20 recruiting is OK.

If you want to win a NC, then Top 20 recruiting will not cut it.

If you think that a Saban, Meyer, or Dabo could recruit Top 10 or even Top 5 classes at Notre Dame (which I do), then the limiting factor given the recent Top 20 classes is the head coach not the institution or its set of unique characteristics - some which help recruiting and some which hurt.
Completely agree with you jbrown. I can say I watched Ara win 2 NCs along with Divine and Holtz's championships. To win it all ND must get more difference makers. I always feel like the top 5 programs get multiple freshman that can contribute immediately and it is rare for ND. I am hoping the transfer portal is NDs answer to this. Also our perspective as fans after seeing ND at the top is completely different from young Irish fans who celebrate 9-3 seasons. I, like you am hoping to see one more NC in my time!
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:22 PM
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Kelly is an average recruiter at best. Our best seasons in the last ten years have been the result of great classes.

2015- most of the key players were from the 5th rated class in 2013. 2 five stars and 17 four stars.

2018- the senior and junior classes were just outside the top ten.

2012- lots of Weis recruits, but the 2011 class was 9th with 2 five stars. Lots of contributors as well.

Thankfully he started realizing five stars matter and signed a couple in the 2020 class. However, until we start getting more five stars we’ll continue to get blown out by the Clemsons and Ohio States of the world.
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:48 PM
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Kelly is an average recruiter at best. Our best seasons in the last ten years have been the result of great classes.

2015- most of the key players were from the 5th rated class in 2013. 2 five stars and 17 four stars.

2018- the senior and junior classes were just outside the top ten.

2012- lots of Weis recruits, but the 2011 class was 9th with 2 five stars. Lots of contributors as well.

Thankfully he started realizing five stars matter and signed a couple in the 2020 class. However, until we start getting more five stars we’ll continue to get blown out by the Clemsons and Ohio States of the world.
Average recruiter at best...? Are you kidding??? Back on planet Earth, we know better.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:20 AM
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Average recruiter at best...? Are you kidding??? Back on planet Earth, we know better.
Notre Dame likely has the biggest recruiting budget in college football. Notre Dame sells itself and there’s more kids than you think that value the 40 year decision.

Ok maybe average was a stretch, he’s a good recruit and closer to above average than great. Go look at Weis’ classes and tell me how great of a recruiter Kelly is. I know... he missed at certain spots but he landed the big fish like Manti, who was critical for our 12-0 season.
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:20 AM
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Notre Dame likely has the biggest recruiting budget in college football. Notre Dame sells itself and there’s more kids than you think that value the 40 year decision.

Ok maybe average was a stretch, he’s a good recruit and closer to above average than great. Go look at Weis’ classes and tell me how great of a recruiter Kelly is. I know... he missed at certain spots but he landed the big fish like Manti, who was critical for our 12-0 season.
Honestly, this is nonsense.

We don't have close to the biggest recruiting budget (since we dont use it) nor close to the biggest recruiting staff. That is way off

Notre Dame does not sell itself to a lot of kids. These kids were not alive during our glory days. Our campus is Indiana. The weather stinks. No girls. Talent is more populated in the south now compared to before. Kids dont really care about the past.

There are certain kids that do not qualify, but more importantly, how many actually want to work in the classroom. Like really work? Some. But not in the abundance you seem to think.

Kellys classes were/are better than Weis'

Last edited by golson5; 05-21-2020 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:42 PM
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Honestly, this is nonsense.

We don't have close to the biggest recruiting budget (since we dont use it) nor close to the biggest recruiting staff. That is way off

Notre Dame does not sell itself to a lot of kids. These kids were not alive during our glory days. Our campus is Indiana. The weather stinks. No girls. Talent is more populated in the south now compared to before. Kids dont really care about the past.

There are certain kids that do not qualify, but more importantly, how many actually want to work in the classroom. Like really work? Some. But not in the abundance you seem to think.

Kellys classes were/are better than Weis'
Never said we had the biggest staff and do you have proof we don’t use our recruiting budget? Or are you assuming that because of the stories of Kelly going cold after a recruit commits?

Yes... it does. Sure, lots of kids want a southern school with nice weather and slutty girls. However, the parents need to sign on the dotted line and they know the chances of having a career in the NFL are very slim. An ND degree is a golden ticket, if you don’t think that sells you’re out to lunch.

True again, but there are more than enough kids that qualify for us to compete for championships.

Go point out where I said Weis was better? Kelly’s classes are better as they are more rounded and lacked holes. I’m just pointing out the fact he’s ignored top end talent and has been lazy. Don’t believe me? There are stories out there from recruits themselves.

Last edited by ndomer4; 05-21-2020 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:49 PM
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Never said we had the biggest staff and do you have proof we don’t use our recruiting budget? Or are you assuming that because of the stories of Kelly going cold after a recruit commits?

Yes... it does. Sure, lots of kids want a southern school with nice weather and slutty girls. However, the parents need to sign on the dotted line and they know the chances of having a career in the NFL are very slim. An ND degree is a golden ticket, if you don’t think that sells you’re out to lunch.

True again, but there are more than enough kids that qualify for us to compete for championships.

Go point out where I said Weis was better? Kelly’s classes are better as they are more rounded and lacked holes. I’m just pointing out the fact he’s ignored top end talent and has been lazy. Don’t believe me? There are stories out there from recruits themselves.

BTW, Kelly has had holes. Perhaps not from bodies but at least in terms of talent. Historically, I believe that QB, RB, and CB have been his lowest rated positions from a roster perspective.
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:44 PM
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BTW, Kelly has had holes. Perhaps not from bodies but at least in terms of talent. Historically, I believe that QB, RB, and CB have been his lowest rated positions from a roster perspective.
Very true, I still remember 2013 when Cam McDaniel was our lead back... but how dare you point out facts, you must be a Kelly Hater!

CB has been very poor, I can’t remember the last time we signed an elite corner.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:15 PM
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Very true, I still remember 2013 when Cam McDaniel was our lead back... but how dare you point out facts, you must be a Kelly Hater!

CB has been very poor, I can’t remember the last time we signed an elite corner.
Was it Tee Shepard? If so, he doesn't really count (unfortunately).
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