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  #76  
Old 12-14-2019, 02:48 PM
jbrown_9999 jbrown_9999 is offline
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Originally Posted by ELDER06 View Post
He was a great coach, but he wouldnít be successful in todayís game. Again, look at how he fared at South Carolina.
Besides Holtz, I suppose that Brian Kelly would be more successful than Rockne, Leahy, and Ara as well since they ran old-fashioned offenses that would not be competitive in "today's game".
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  #77  
Old 12-14-2019, 03:53 PM
ELDER06 ELDER06 is offline
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Besides Holtz, I suppose that Brian Kelly would be more successful than Rockne, Leahy, and Ara as well since they ran old-fashioned offenses that would not be competitive in "today's game".
I canít say, wasnít alive when they were coaching. I think Lou wouldíve struggled recruiting in this modern day of CF.
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  #78  
Old 12-14-2019, 04:42 PM
jessemoore97 jessemoore97 is offline
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I canít say, wasnít alive when they were coaching. I think Lou wouldíve struggled recruiting in this modern day of CF.
Give him Vinny Cerrato again and vola 4 straight #1 classes. He had a huge impact on the program while he was here.
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  #79  
Old 12-14-2019, 06:00 PM
Frankus Frankus is offline
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Your giving Weis credit for a team that he inherited. A big part of being a college coach is recruiting, his teams with all his guys went 6-6. These teams donít hold a candle to 2015, 2017, 2018 and 2019. The 14 team while not great would steamroll those Weis teams.

I also donít get how your still arguing for a loss. Kellyís has some really close losses and some descent to very good wins. Weis got steamrolled at home in 06 , what was Kellyís worst home loss? 13 vs OU with Rees at qb (35-21).

The 05 team was not as good as the 12, 15, 17 and 18 teams. The 05 team had a pedestrian defense and no depth. Sure the offence was good but that unit lacked depth as well. They lost to a 5 win team and only beat two teams with a winning record, one being Navy.
I'm giving Weis credit for being as competitive as Kelly has ever been during those two years, playing a much more difficult schedule, and for coaching the most epic game in the post Holtz era. I repeat THOSE TWO YEARS So stay focused.

I'm gonna go on record and say that Kelly will NEVER win or lose such an epic game as the 2005 USC-ND game, where he took a vastly superior team down to the last snap in a game that will be remembered for a generation of fans.

There's a reason why we're playing Iowa State at the end of 2019. I realize that's good enough for Jenkins and you, but I'd take 2005 over now, where at least we had one epic game and looked like the ND of old.
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  #80  
Old 12-14-2019, 06:16 PM
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I'm giving Weis credit for being as competitive as Kelly has ever been during those two years, playing a much more difficult schedule, and for coaching the most epic game in the post Holtz era. I repeat THOSE TWO YEARS So stay focused.

I'm gonna go on record and say that Kelly will NEVER win or lose such an epic game as the 2005 USC-ND game, where he took a vastly superior team down to the last snap in a game that will be remembered for a generation of fans.

There's a reason why we're playing Iowa State at the end of 2019. I realize that's good enough for Jenkins and you, but I'd take 2005 over now, where at least we had one epic game and looked like the ND of old.
You would take 05 where we beat two teams with a winning record and lost to the only good teams we played? Our best wins are 7 win Michigan and 8 win Navy. Youíll take that over 12,15,17 and 18? I bet your one of the only ones here who would prefer that.

Kelly has a long home win streak, has he ever played a team of that caliber at home? I donít think so. This will be a moot point after next season where I believe we beat Clemson at home. Just remember Kelly has never had a home loss like the Michigan blowout.

This team got screwed out of a good bowl based on tie ins. Your argument is flawed, your arguing for arguably one of the worst coaches in ND history.
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  #81  
Old 12-14-2019, 07:20 PM
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You would take 05 where we beat two teams with a winning record and lost to the only good teams we played? Our best wins are 7 win Michigan and 8 win Navy. You’ll take that over 12,15,17 and 18? I bet your one of the only ones here who would prefer that.

Kelly has a long home win streak, has he ever played a team of that caliber at home? I don’t think so. This will be a moot point after next season where I believe we beat Clemson at home. Just remember Kelly has never had a home loss like the Michigan blowout.

This team got screwed out of a good bowl based on tie ins. Your argument is flawed, your arguing for arguably one of the worst coaches in ND history.
We hung with the equivalent of Bama's dynasty during the mid 2000s and lost on a highly questionable last second TD.

USC had one BCS loss under Pete Carroll during that era, which by a last second TD. 7 double digit win seasons in a row. Coming off back to back national championships before we played them in 2005. So yeah, our 2005 loss to USC will always be our most impressive loss. BK will never and could never hang with a team like that.
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Last edited by echo88; 12-14-2019 at 07:22 PM.
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  #82  
Old 12-14-2019, 07:36 PM
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We hung with the equivalent of Bama's dynasty during the mid 2000s and lost on a highly questionable last second TD.

USC had one BCS loss under Pete Carroll during that era, which by a last second TD. 7 double digit win seasons in a row. Coming off back to back national championships before we played them in 2005. So yeah, our 2005 loss to USC will always be our most impressive loss. BK will never and could never hang with a team like that.
I guess we get to find out next year when Clemson comes calling.

To your point, that is basically a must win for Kelly. Either he can eventually beat a top dog or he can't. You can't keep losing to elite teams if you think your program is elite, sometimes you have to actually win those games.

The thing is, had Kelly won a title and 2-3 more of those "big" games, the blowout loss to Michigan would have been forgotten by now. Pretty much everyone gets blown out once in a while. The issue is Kelly has no signature wins to fall back on when the blowout occurs.
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  #83  
Old 12-14-2019, 07:40 PM
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We hung with the equivalent of Bama's dynasty during the mid 2000s and lost on a highly questionable last second TD.

USC had one BCS loss under Pete Carroll during that era, which by a last second TD. 7 double digit win seasons in a row. Coming off back to back national championships before we played them in 2005. So yeah, our 2005 loss to USC will always be our most impressive loss. BK will never and could never hang with a team like that.
Your arguing for a loss as being the superior moment. Sorry were just going to have to agree to disagree, a loss is a loss. You could lose by 40 but you get the same result. Wait for Clemson AT HOME next year.

Look I’ve been as critical as anyone for BK’s big game blunders, but any argument for Weis over him is just illogical.
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  #84  
Old 12-14-2019, 08:45 PM
coltssb coltssb is offline
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I guess we get to find out next year when Clemson comes calling.

To your point, that is basically a must win for Kelly. Either he can eventually beat a top dog or he can't. You can't keep losing to elite teams if you think your program is elite, sometimes you have to actually win those games.

The thing is, had Kelly won a title and 2-3 more of those "big" games, the blowout loss to Michigan would have been forgotten by now. Pretty much everyone gets blown out once in a while. The issue is Kelly has no signature wins to fall back on when the blowout occurs.
100 percent correct. He had to win a meaningful top 10 game at some point. As you mentioned, everyone has a bad day/game every once in awhile. Michigan would had been forgotten if he had beat FSU, Clemson, or Bama in the past.
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  #85  
Old 12-18-2019, 01:15 AM
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I'm giving Weis credit for being as competitive as Kelly has ever been during those two years, playing a much more difficult schedule, and for coaching the most epic game in the post Holtz era. I repeat THOSE TWO YEARS So stay focused.

I'm gonna go on record and say that Kelly will NEVER win or lose such an epic game as the 2005 USC-ND game, where he took a vastly superior team down to the last snap in a game that will be remembered for a generation of fans.

There's a reason why we're playing Iowa State at the end of 2019. I realize that's good enough for Jenkins and you, but I'd take 2005 over now, where at least we had one epic game and looked like the ND of old.
Florida State & Clemson road hurricane games don't?!? We spotted Clemson 14 off turnovers and they had the great deshaun watson..

Do they not count because they didn't have that much more talent than us?

I'm confused by this...
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  #86  
Old 12-18-2019, 03:46 PM
Frankus Frankus is offline
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You would take 05 where we beat two teams with a winning record and lost to the only good teams we played? Our best wins are 7 win Michigan and 8 win Navy. You’ll take that over 12,15,17 and 18? I bet your one of the only ones here who would prefer that.

Kelly has a long home win streak, has he ever played a team of that caliber at home? I don’t think so. This will be a moot point after next season where I believe we beat Clemson at home. Just remember Kelly has never had a home loss like the Michigan blowout.

This team got screwed out of a good bowl based on tie ins. Your argument is flawed, your arguing for arguably one of the worst coaches in ND history.
Eric Hanson in the SBT debunked your theory. We didn't get screwed. We lost by 31 to a 4-loss Michigan team. Bad losses by traditional powers to average teams weigh heavily. isn't that obvious? I could care less about beating a bunch of bad teams, and a few average one's and bragging about a streak. I'd much rather play Michigan every year, with USC and one other OOC team from an elite conference than this dog crap ACC slate with new Mexico and Bowling Green thrown in. It's all smoke and mirrors with you guys, but the rest of the college football world knows exactly what our value is. Clemson's gonna beat us at home. So is Ohio State, which is going to be a reality check for you people. In ten years Kelly has NEVER beaten a Top 10 team at the end of season at home or away. What's changed? The winning streak doesn't mean anything when a team with more talent shows up and Kelly has to out coach a better coach. I'd be glad to eat my words, but Kelly is not a good enough coach to beat a team with superior talent home, or away.

Last edited by Frankus; 12-18-2019 at 03:53 PM.
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  #87  
Old 12-18-2019, 04:03 PM
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Florida State & Clemson road hurricane games don't?!? We spotted Clemson 14 off turnovers and they had the great deshaun watson..

Do they not count because they didn't have that much more talent than us?

I'm confused by this...
What's confusing? That 2005 game is still getting attention by networks as an epic game. It even has a phrase "Bush Push" that is in our nomenclature, due to it's impact in a last play game I've never seen any network, or national audience recall the games you've mentioned. Have you? I don't consider either an epic game, though they were good games. Nobody considered either team, then or now, to be as talented as USC 2005. Weis almost pulled up what some would consider one of those "upset of the century" games. Kelly never has and never will.
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