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  #26  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:21 PM
golson5 golson5 is offline
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Originally Posted by echo88 View Post
One of the most coveted qbs from the 2018 class with offers that included Bama, Clemson, and OSU "cant throw"? Guess youre getting your assessment from the BK camp...lol

The QBs who transferred out of ND failed because BK can't develop a QB to save his life...
Right.....because as we know, every single highly recruited QBs all pan out LOL

Ive never seen a college qb throw a worse ball than Phil in the spring game. The balls were ducks. Diving in the ground, wobbling. It was really bad
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  #27  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:41 PM
jessemoore97 jessemoore97 is offline
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Right.....because as we know, every single highly recruited QBs all pan out LOL

Ive never seen a college qb throw a worse ball than Phil in the spring game. The balls were ducks. Diving in the ground, wobbling. It was really bad
What was the difference between those and say HS performance? Watching his tapes in HS his throwing, and numbers to shiw for it, seemed fine. What changed was changing his throwing/mechanics. He didnt look comfortable unless he got to relax and rip off some throws, which had distance, speed, and a veey nice trajectory.

Was it a case that our QB gurus got ahold of Phil and started "fixing" his motion first foot on campus? Or did they allow him to ever be Phil and run the offense and do the drills as he was, then tried to "fix" it after analyzing that it didn't work. My money is on the former rather than later. If that was the case you just set the kid back a ton trying to adjust what earned him success his whole life including offers for all the top achools and lots of lofty accolades. While "fixing" him he's also adjuating to a new offense, which hes now tentative in running and has to think throwing mechanics while playing instead of just playing.

I'm not a smart man but I firmly believe if it ain't broke why fix it.
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  #28  
Old 01-08-2020, 11:38 PM
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Right.....because as we know, every single highly recruited QBs all pan out LOL

Ive never seen a college qb throw a worse ball than Phil in the spring game. The balls were ducks. Diving in the ground, wobbling. It was really bad
Clearly you missed the Andrew Hendrix games...
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  #29  
Old 01-08-2020, 11:43 PM
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Clearly you missed the Andrew Hendrix games...
Woah, woah... thatís my boy.
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  #30  
Old 01-08-2020, 11:46 PM
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What was the difference between those and say HS performance? Watching his tapes in HS his throwing, and numbers to shiw for it, seemed fine. What changed was changing his throwing/mechanics. He didnt look comfortable unless he got to relax and rip off some throws, which had distance, speed, and a veey nice trajectory.

Was it a case that our QB gurus got ahold of Phil and started "fixing" his motion first foot on campus? Or did they allow him to ever be Phil and run the offense and do the drills as he was, then tried to "fix" it after analyzing that it didn't work. My money is on the former rather than later. If that was the case you just set the kid back a ton trying to adjust what earned him success his whole life including offers for all the top achools and lots of lofty accolades. While "fixing" him he's also adjuating to a new offense, which hes now tentative in running and has to think throwing mechanics while playing instead of just playing.

I'm not a smart man but I firmly believe if it ain't broke why fix it.
Absolutely! I don't know how many times I've seen coaches try to fix pitchers and the way they throw the ball only to end up ruining their careers. I'm completely on board with your last sentence. Without truly seeing Jurk throw pre-ND, it's hard to say if they messed him up. Now, someone like Hendrix needed to be fixed. But he looked lost by the time he got in the game. So who knows it they got to him first..
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  #31  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:07 AM
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Finally an elite QB with a brain....
Yeah, so elite he couldnít beat out an avg Ian Book.
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  #32  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:10 AM
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Would have loved to see him get his shot but it makes sense for him. Hope he does well elsewhere and Kelly isnít kicking himself in the future.

Will be interesting to see how Clark and Pyne do in the spring. Still three good QBs (based on rankings) on the roster. The team should be fine.
I hate constantly ball washing this kid, but Iím extremely confident JT Daniels will end up transferring. He would be a nice fit for the few seasons after Book and before Buchner
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  #33  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:36 AM
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Yeah, so elite he couldnít beat out an avg Ian Book.
Oh that was never up to Jurk...BK would play Ian over anyone...
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  #34  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:38 AM
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Right.....because as we know, every single highly recruited QBs all pan out LOL

Ive never seen a college qb throw a worse ball than Phil in the spring game. The balls were ducks. Diving in the ground, wobbling. It was really bad
Meanwhile...NONE pan out here and it's just a matter of bad luck spanning a decade...lol
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  #35  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:39 AM
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book is 23-3 as a starter and is the best qb on the roster of course he should be invited back.
W/L has to be the most useless stat at evaluating a QB.

Does anybody honestly believe he will improve next year? No? So back to 2 and 3 loss season we go, and that's best case scenario
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  #36  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:41 AM
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W/L has to be the most useless stat at evaluating a QB.

Does anybody honestly believe he will improve next year? No? So back to 2 and 3 loss season we go, and that's best case scenario
I think they can go 11-1, theyíre probably not beating Clemson.
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  #37  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:42 AM
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Oh that was never up to Jurk...BK would play Ian over anyone...
You know that how? Didnít BK replace Wimbush with Book last year? This narrative that Kelly is blindly loyal to his QBs was just proven false last yr, but you guys canít accept the fact that something might not be Kellyís fault
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  #38  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:56 AM
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I think they can go 11-1, theyíre probably not beating Clemson.
Uh.....Duh Nostradamus
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  #39  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:58 AM
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Yeah, so elite he couldn’t beat out an avg Ian Book.
Who’s career with the Canadian league will be average.
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  #40  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:59 AM
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You know that how? Didnít BK replace Wimbush with Book last year? This narrative that Kelly is blindly loyal to his QBs was just proven false last yr, but you guys canít accept the fact that something might not be Kellyís fault
I know BK has had absolutely zero successful college QBs come out of ND in just over a decade. Youd think that would be enough for guys with elite talent to steer clear...I've no doubt that that fact is brought up by coaches competing for a pledge during the recruiting process...

But yes, it's prob not at all tied to BK. Just bad luck. Lol
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  #41  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:07 AM
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I will say this. The Brian Kelly tenure has not proved that it can recruit or develop a good enough QB to get drafted at the next level. That statement says all we need to know. God Bless Ian for his contribution. His record as a starter is somewhat deceiving. We won besides his contribution; especially this past season.Is he the best we have right now in warming the seat for the next guy... yes. No doubt. Saw enough of Phil to know that. And I am sure the underperforming QB coaching staff saw that as well. Be that as it may, I truly do not know if the “next guys” will really be any better ultimately. Given that I don’t like our offensive scheme and the latest OC moving on, and the history of QB development (or lack thereof) under Kelly... I suspect we will continue to have below average or just sufficient QB play until we have a change at HC.
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  #42  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:13 AM
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I know BK has had absolutely zero successful college QBs come out of ND in just over a decade. Youd think that would be enough for guys with elite talent to steer clear...I've no doubt that that fact is brought up by coaches competing for a pledge during the recruiting process...

But yes, it's prob not at all tied to BK. Just bad luck. Lol
Sorry. I kinda piggy backed on your assertion. Didnít read your post until after mine but we are simpatico in this regard.
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  #43  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:44 AM
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Whoís career with the Canadian league will be average.
Woah fella.........
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  #44  
Old 01-09-2020, 03:15 AM
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Yeah, so elite he couldnít beat out an avg Ian Book.
I agree. I think we need to Get use to this. I think this will become the norm now to transfer if you donít start after two years. I wish him well.
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  #45  
Old 01-09-2020, 03:22 AM
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Default BK's NFL QB(s)?

Am I correct that in ten years at ND, Brian Kelly has had only one QB (Kizer) who made an NFL roster?

Weis had 2 in five years while Holtz had 4 on NFL rosters and 2 others who played in the CFL.

Last edited by jbrown_9999; 01-09-2020 at 03:38 AM.
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  #46  
Old 01-09-2020, 03:30 AM
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Am I correct that in ten years at ND, Brian Kelly has had only one QB (Kizer) who has played in a regular season game in the NFL?
This isnít really a good argument. Saban and Meyer have not exactly produced NFL talents.
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  #47  
Old 01-09-2020, 03:56 AM
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This isn’t really a good argument. Saban and Meyer have not exactly produced NFL talents.
If recruiting / developing a high performing QB is a requirement to win a NC, then a head coach who has only sent one QB to the NFL in 10 years at the same school does not seem likely to win one.

Both Saban and Meyer have done better than 1 in a decade.

Also, Kelly was supposed to be an offensive guru / QB whisperer when he started at ND.

Saban's QBs

Tua Tagovailoa, Probable first round pick
Jalen Hurts, Probable 1st to 3rd round pick
A. J. McCarron, 6 years in NFL
John Parker Wilson, 3 years in NFL
Greg McElroy, 3 years in NFL
Blake Sims, 1+ year in NFL

Meyer's QBs

Josh Harris, Bowling Green, Pro career: Harris was drafted in the sixth round by Baltimore in 2004 and knocked around the NFL and CFL for three seasons.
Alex Smith, Utah, Pro career: Smith was selected first overall in 2005 by the San Francisco 49ers also five year starter for KC
Chris Leak, Florida, Pro career: Signed as an undrafted free agent in 2007 by the Chicago Bears
Tim Tebow, Florida, Pro career: Tebow was drafted in the first round by Denver in 2010. 3 years in NFL
Braxton Miller, Ohio State, Pro career: Miller was selected in the third round by Houston in 2016. Spent 4 years in the NFL as WR
Cardale Jones, Ohio State, Pro career: Jones was drafted in the fourth round by Buffalo in 2016 and spent 4 years in NFL
J. T. Barrett: First Team All-Big Ten in 2014, 2016 and 2017. A couple of seasons on practice squads of three different NFl teams

Last edited by jbrown_9999; 01-09-2020 at 04:15 AM.
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  #48  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:13 AM
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If recruiting / developing a high performing QB is a requirement to win a NC, then a head coach who has only sent one QB to the NFL in 10 years at the same school does not seem likely to win one.

Both Saban and Meyer have done better than 1 in a decade.

Also, Kelly was supposed to be an offensive guru / QB whisperer when he started at ND.

Saban's QBs

Tua Tagovailoa, Probable first round pick
Jalen Hurts, Probable 1st to 3rd round pick
A. J. McCarron, 6 years in NFL
John Parker Wilson, 3 years in NFL
Greg McElroy, 3 years in NFL
Blake Sims, 1+ year in NFL

Meyer's QBs

Josh Harris, Bowling Green, Pro career: Harris was drafted in the sixth round by Baltimore in 2004 and knocked around the NFL and CFL for three seasons.
Alex Smith, Utah, Pro career: Smith was selected first overall in 2005 by the San Francisco 49ers also five year starter for KC
Chris Leak, Florida, Pro career: Signed as an undrafted free agent in 2007 by the Chicago Bears
Tim Tebow, Florida, Pro career: Tebow was drafted in the first round by Denver in 2010. 3 years in NFL
Braxton Miller, Ohio State, Pro career: Miller was selected in the third round by Houston in 2016. Spent 4 years in the NFL as WR
Cardale Jones, Ohio State, Pro career: Jones was drafted in the fourth round by Buffalo in 2016 and spent 4 years in NFL
J. T. Barrett: First Team All-Big Ten in 2014, 2016 and 2017. A couple of seasons on practice squads of three different NFl teams
Reilly made Hurts and he doesnt have a prayer to go in the first round btw. I dont think Mcelroy Sims or Walker were even drafted, I could be wrong I cant remeber. Saban hasnt had one QB do a thing in the NFL and hes the greatest college coach ever
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  #49  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by echo88 View Post
I know BK has had absolutely zero successful college QBs come out of ND in just over a decade. Youd think that would be enough for guys with elite talent to steer clear...I've no doubt that that fact is brought up by coaches competing for a pledge during the recruiting process...

But yes, it's prob not at all tied to BK. Just bad luck. Lol
Obviously it didnt work because Kelly landed a stud in Buchner. By far his most talented qb he has ever landed
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  #50  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:17 AM
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What was the difference between those and say HS performance? Watching his tapes in HS his throwing, and numbers to shiw for it, seemed fine. What changed was changing his throwing/mechanics. He didnt look comfortable unless he got to relax and rip off some throws, which had distance, speed, and a veey nice trajectory.

Was it a case that our QB gurus got ahold of Phil and started "fixing" his motion first foot on campus? Or did they allow him to ever be Phil and run the offense and do the drills as he was, then tried to "fix" it after analyzing that it didn't work. My money is on the former rather than later. If that was the case you just set the kid back a ton trying to adjust what earned him success his whole life including offers for all the top achools and lots of lofty accolades. While "fixing" him he's also adjuating to a new offense, which hes now tentative in running and has to think throwing mechanics while playing instead of just playing.

I'm not a smart man but I firmly believe if it ain't broke why fix it.
Actually he really struggled at the Army bowl practices and it was a problem there. Then Phil didnt enroll early which put him behind.
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