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  #26  
Old 12-29-2019, 01:53 AM
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Eh I'm not so sure about that, nd beat LSU just a couple years ago. I'm not sure there has been that massive of an uptick in lsu's talent level. The difference and the reason they were able to make that jump was because of the addition of the all world quarterback that fell into their lap
Recruiting rankings

2016- LSU(2) ND(15)
2017- LSU(7) ND(10)
2018- LSU(15) ND(10)
2019- LSU(5) ND(16)

Over that time LSU has 7 five stars to 0 for ND. Add another 5 star from the Joe Burrow transfer.
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  #27  
Old 12-29-2019, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ndomer4 View Post
Recruiting rankings

2016- LSU(2) ND(15)
2017- LSU(7) ND(10)
2018- LSU(15) ND(10)
2019- LSU(5) ND(16)

Over that time LSU has 7 five stars to 0 for ND. Add another 5 star from the Joe Burrow transfer.
IDK if you mean he was literally a 5* or heís the equivalent of one. Burrow was a 4* out of HS.
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  #28  
Old 12-29-2019, 03:55 AM
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IDK if you mean he was literally a 5* or heís the equivalent of one. Burrow was a 4* out of HS.
Equivalent, you might as well count it. Regardless they have much more talent than us. Imagine us adding 7 Jaylon Smiths to our roster.
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  #29  
Old 12-29-2019, 01:26 PM
AtLeastMySisWasIrish AtLeastMySisWasIrish is offline
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Opinion - thank goodness we have Chase Claypool. The guy is a monster and will be greatly missed next year.
Agreed. Talk about a player and stepping up and filling the shoes of the much needed go to guy...but with Austin coming back, Lenzy being part of the offense from Game 1, Johnson coming in...I think we will be fine but Claypool is special and hope he enjoys a long and fruitful NFL career! GO IRISH!
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  #30  
Old 12-29-2019, 01:45 PM
JoeBrasco JoeBrasco is offline
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Facts
-Notre Dame is going to finish in the top 11 for the third straight year.
-Ian Book is 19-3 as a starter.
-only 5 qbs have accounted for more points than Book (4 in the playoff).
-ND is 33-6 the last 3 seasons.

Opinions
-Tony Jones should be invited back for a fifth year.
-Kmet should enter the draft.
-Clark Lea needs a massive pay raise.
-Ian Book is the most underrated ND player of recent memory.
-ND is a perennial top 10 program again.

Not as doom and gloom as we all thought after the Michigan game. Thereís still room to improve but I like where the program is heading.
Ian Book is not the guy. His record as the starter has benefited from a MUCH improved ND defense.

You have to plug in Jurkovec and coach him up. He has all the tools of the quarterbacks that made it to the playoffs. I would rather roll the dice with Phil than pretend Ian Book can lead us to a national championship next year.
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  #31  
Old 12-29-2019, 03:05 PM
AtLeastMySisWasIrish AtLeastMySisWasIrish is offline
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Not my words itís his. So, if he thinks ND can be better, than it is on him. And no, Iím not trying to start a Kelly crapfest thread. Just making a point that recruiting may not always be as it seems when people mention ND at such a huge disadvantage.
Not tying to start an argument as I agree with the way you quoted Kelly however I think it may have been taken a bit out of context...Yes, he clearly said they are no longer content with being to a 10-15 ranked class but I think what he was alluding to was taking kids who meet the acceptance criteria and not being patient enough to go after the Top 5 talent who need a nudge or more time to prove they can meet the standards...taking fewer commitments early in the process and waiting a bit longer to take the Tyree's and Johnson's of the world. Personally I loved his honesty and think we are going to see a slower played recruiting season and stressing to the Top kids, ND is a program worth waiting on and taking their chances with a consistent 10 win team...hard to tell but I think a statement on his part they're not going to settle and wait to be in position to grab the brass ring...problem is remember when people complained about Weiss and his philosophy of going after the top player, then not having a Plan B f they chose to go elsewhere...GO IRISH!
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  #32  
Old 12-29-2019, 03:57 PM
ND_JACK ND_JACK is offline
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This is going to be a tough argument to sell when Kelly says things like he said recently-ND being able to recruit top 5 classes more frequently. All that tells me is that the only ones holding ND and recruiting down is Kelly and his staff right now...
Let it go ......please. Kelly said nothing new. He was only stating the truth to a reporter, which we were all aware of. We have not been a top 5 program recruiting,period. Which by the way it usually the same teams in the top 5. So I guess all the other college football programs have lazy *** coaches too. Kelly goal is to make us a top 5 program which I am sure it has been every year, period. He said the obvious that we all have been saying on this board ....that we need to improve recruiting if we want to become an elite program. Letís move on.
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  #33  
Old 12-29-2019, 04:04 PM
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Eh I'm not so sure about that, nd beat LSU just a couple years ago. I'm not sure there has been that massive of an uptick in lsu's talent level. The difference and the reason they were able to make that jump was because of the addition of the all world quarterback that fell into their lap
Itís hard to disagree with that. Especially after watching that game yesterday. That QB was playing at an NFL level....sweet to watch. I actually felt sorry for OK defense.
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2019, 05:19 PM
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It is a good time to be a Notre Dame football fan. Really, with what the Notre Dame women bb, hockey, soccer, lacrosse, track and field, cc, and fencing teams have done over the last 5 years, it's a great time to be a ND fan, period. (Oh, and don"t forget the Garth Brooks concert and the upcoming presidential debate on campus.)

I have enjoyed these years as much as I did the Holtz years. With fewer ulcers. That BC loss almost killed me.

Go Irish! Go Domerdomain. And Happy New Year, brothers!
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  #35  
Old 12-29-2019, 05:20 PM
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Ian Book is not the guy. His record as the starter has benefited from a MUCH improved ND defense.

You have to plug in Jurkovec and coach him up. He has all the tools of the quarterbacks that made it to the playoffs. I would rather roll the dice with Phil than pretend Ian Book can lead us to a national championship next year.
Maybe he has all the tools, but letís not act like heís on the level of Lawrence or Fields. They were much more sought after as recruits and from the limited time we have seen of him, they are superior athletes with better arms.

His record as the starter is as good as it is because heís made clutch plays in clutch moments and takes great care of the ball. If you take away the 2014 and 2016 BVG years, when has ND had a bad defense? The 2011 defense could have won 10-12 games with a competent offence.

Ian Books record is what it is because in 22 starts over the last 2 years he has accounted for 61 touchdowns and only 13 interceptions.
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  #36  
Old 12-29-2019, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 2lakes View Post
It is a good time to be a Notre Dame football fan. Really, with what the Notre Dame women bb, hockey, soccer, lacrosse, track and field, cc, and fencing teams have done over the last 5 years, it's a great time to be a ND fan, period. (Oh, and don"t forget the Garth Brooks concert and the upcoming presidential debate on campus.)

I have enjoyed these years as much as I did the Holtz years. With fewer ulcers. That BC loss almost killed me.

Go Irish! Go Domerdomain. And Happy New Year, brothers!
A 2lakes sighting!
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  #37  
Old 12-29-2019, 07:22 PM
coltssb coltssb is offline
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Originally Posted by 2lakes View Post
It is a good time to be a Notre Dame football fan. Really, with what the Notre Dame women bb, hockey, soccer, lacrosse, track and field, cc, and fencing teams have done over the last 5 years, it's a great time to be a ND fan, period. (Oh, and don"t forget the Garth Brooks concert and the upcoming presidential debate on campus.)

I have enjoyed these years as much as I did the Holtz years. With fewer ulcers. That BC loss almost killed me.

Go Irish! Go Domerdomain. And Happy New Year, brothers!
Whoa!!!! 2Lakes made appearance!!!Good to see you post! Glad youíre alive!!!
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  #38  
Old 12-29-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ndomer4 View Post
Maybe he has all the tools, but letís not act like heís on the level of Lawrence or Fields. They were much more sought after as recruits and from the limited time we have seen of him, they are superior athletes with better arms.

His record as the starter is as good as it is because heís made clutch plays in clutch moments and takes great care of the ball. If you take away the 2014 and 2016 BVG years, when has ND had a bad defense? The 2011 defense could have won 10-12 games with a competent offence.

Ian Books record is what it is because in 22 starts over the last 2 years he has accounted for 61 touchdowns and only 13 interceptions.
Book is steady, but for the most part, heís not going to put the team on his shoulders and carry them to a win (excluding VT). Burrow and Lawrence are on another level. I think if ND had either of them, theyíre playing for a Title in 2 weeks. Itís a lot easier said than done bc QBs like those 2 arenít guys you find every yr.
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  #39  
Old 12-29-2019, 08:43 PM
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Book is steady, but for the most part, heís not going to put the team on his shoulders and carry them to a win (excluding VT). Burrow and Lawrence are on another level. I think if ND had either of them, theyíre playing for a Title in 2 weeks. Itís a lot easier said than done bc QBs like those 2 arenít guys you find every yr.
Watching that game last night it's also clear how far off we are from having elite running back. Dobbins and etienne are so much more explosive then anyone we have. I hope we can land shipley because I feel like a tyree shipley duo would get us a lot closer to the top especially combined with buchner colzie Johnson and styles.
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  #40  
Old 12-29-2019, 08:49 PM
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Watching that game last night it's also clear how far off we are from having elite running back. Dobbins and etienne are so much more explosive then anyone we have. I hope we can land shipley because I feel like a tyree shipley duo would get us a lot closer to the top especially combined with buchner colzie Johnson and styles.
RB isnít as important as QB. LSU was using WRs at RB yesterday and there was virtually no difference.

If you want to win at the highest level you need:

Stud QB
Excellent OL
At least one deep threat at WR
Stud Pass Rusher
Run stuffing DT/NG
Shutdown Corner
Uber athletic Safety

Iíd say secondary positions would be:

All Purpose RB- Homerun hitter as a Runner, equal receiving threat out of the backfield
Stud TE
Athletic LBs


Obviously, thereís no 1 specific formula, but this is what Iíve noticed in general.
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  #41  
Old 12-29-2019, 08:56 PM
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RB isn’t as important as QB. LSU was using WRs at RB yesterday and there was virtually no difference.

If you want to win at the highest level you need:

Stud QB
Excellent OL
At least one deep threat at WR
Stud Pass Rusher
Run stuffing DT/NG
Shutdown Corner
Uber athletic Safety

I’d say secondary positions would be:

All Purpose RB- Homerun hitter as a Runner, equal receiving threat out of the backfield
Stud TE
Athletic LBs



Obviously, there’s no 1 specific formula, but this is what I’ve noticed in general.
This is good but don't forget Defensive End. you get turnovers from coverage and Pressure so you need that Rush end for pressure whether hes a DE(Okwara) or an OLB (Shembo). EDIT: you said a stud, give me a stud and an edge setter(the guy that keeps contain, Kareem etc)
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  #42  
Old 12-29-2019, 11:59 PM
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This is good but don't forget Defensive End. you get turnovers from coverage and Pressure so you need that Rush end for pressure whether hes a DE(Okwara) or an OLB (Shembo). EDIT: you said a stud, give me a stud and an edge setter(the guy that keeps contain, Kareem etc)
I’m painting with broad strokes. ND won’t ever be able to fully replicate the roster of a Clemson or Ohio St, where it’s 4/5*s top to bottom. However, I do think it’s possible to recruit as effectively as them at these critical positions.
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  #43  
Old 12-30-2019, 12:24 AM
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It is a good time to be a Notre Dame football fan. Really, with what the Notre Dame women bb, hockey, soccer, lacrosse, track and field, cc, and fencing teams have done over the last 5 years, it's a great time to be a ND fan, period. (Oh, and don"t forget the Garth Brooks concert and the upcoming presidential debate on campus.)

I have enjoyed these years as much as I did the Holtz years. With fewer ulcers. That BC loss almost killed me.

Go Irish! Go Domerdomain. And Happy New Year, brothers!
Well Iíll be dammed.... how are you brother????
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  #44  
Old 12-30-2019, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ndomer4 View Post
Facts
-Notre Dame is going to finish in the top 11 for the third straight year.
-Ian Book is 19-3 as a starter.
-only 5 qbs have accounted for more points than Book (4 in the playoff).
-ND is 33-6 the last 3 seasons.

Opinions
-Tony Jones should be invited back for a fifth year.
-Kmet should enter the draft.
-Clark Lea needs a massive pay raise.
-Ian Book is the most underrated ND player of recent memory.
-ND is a perennial top 10 program again.

Not as doom and gloom as we all thought after the Michigan game. Thereís still room to improve but I like where the program is heading.
Rees was the most underrate imo
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  #45  
Old 12-30-2019, 01:20 AM
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Rees was the most underrate imo
Are you being sarcastic? People want to point out the defense for the turnaround when talking about Book, but Rees led the 2011 and 2013 teams to 8 wins. Those defences were loaded, Book is taking both of those teams to a 10-12 win regular season no questions.

Also his nickname wasnít turnover Tommy for no reason. Also no one will argue Book is on the same level as the playoff qbs, but it can get a lot worse than Book and weíll be back to winning 8 games. I wonder what the board would be like then.
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  #46  
Old 12-30-2019, 03:26 PM
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Is there something wrong with being a perennial top 12 team? Only a grumpy old ND fan is going to complain about something as minuscule as this.

Have fun being miserable, while myself and others will enjoy a successful season. First time winning 11+ games in back to back seasons since the 80ís and people still complaining...
The problem is, people who saw those 80's teams know that the number of comparative wins doesn't equate with the comparative quality of the teams. You are trying to twist figures to make your self feel good. If you can't handle the push back without personal attacks, you should ask your self why you're so angry.
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  #47  
Old 12-30-2019, 03:40 PM
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Are you being sarcastic? People want to point out the defense for the turnaround when talking about Book, but Rees led the 2011 and 2013 teams to 8 wins. Those defences were loaded, Book is taking both of those teams to a 10-12 win regular season no questions.

Also his nickname wasnít turnover Tommy for no reason. Also no one will argue Book is on the same level as the playoff qbs, but it can get a lot worse than Book and weíll be back to winning 8 games. I wonder what the board would be like then.
Yeah, there's an article in the SBT about how Rees was booed in ND Stadium. I can attest that booing a QB hasn't happened much in modern ND history.

My biggest shake my head moment was in the 10th game of Rees' senior year against Pittsburgh. It was late in the 3rd quarter with the game tied. We drove the entire length of the field and had 2nd & Goal at PITT 4.

Rees threw an interception in the end zone.

I couldn't believe that a guy so experienced could be so careless with the football. We lost to an unranked 5-4 team. After the game, Kelly said, "Our mantra is you can't start winning until you stop losing and we did things tonight that caused losing,". Yeah, like your senior QB carelessly throwing an interception in the end zone on a 2nd down and goal at the 4.

I suspect if Rees is named OC, there's going to be a lot of hype and revisionism of Rees. Stay tuned.
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  #48  
Old 12-30-2019, 03:59 PM
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The problem is, people who saw those 80's teams know that the number of comparative wins doesn't equate with the comparative quality of the teams. You are trying to twist figures to make your self feel good. If you can't handle the push back without personal attacks, you should ask your self why you're so angry.
I was born in 1993, my only knowledge of the 80ís comes from the Lou Holtz book on the last title team. I wonít argue weíve won the big games, but weíve won some big games like USC in 17, Michigan in 18 but not that huge win. I think Clemson next year can be that game.

Iím just stating we have been consistently very good. I havenít made any personal attacks nor am I angry.
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  #49  
Old 12-30-2019, 04:10 PM
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I was born in 1993, my only knowledge of the 80’s comes from the Lou Holtz book on the last title team. I won’t argue we’ve won the big games, but we’ve won some big games like USC in 17, Michigan in 18 but not that huge win. I think Clemson next year can be that game.

I’m just stating we have been consistently very good. I haven’t made any personal attacks nor am I angry.
You said, "Have fun being miserable, while myself and others will enjoy a successful season". I thought that was an uncalled for personal attack to a person who was debating in good faith.

I think we've been consistently good. Very good? We lost to Michigan by 31 just this year. That just doesn't happen to very good, consistent teams. We have failed quite miserably on the elite stage in the Kelly era. I hope you're right about Clemson and will gladly say I was wrong if we beat them. They're elite. The game is at home. Assuming we beat Wisconsin, it could be the equivalent of the 1988 Miami game. We'll see.
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  #50  
Old 12-30-2019, 05:24 PM
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You said, "Have fun being miserable, while myself and others will enjoy a successful season". I thought that was an uncalled for personal attack to a person who was debating in good faith.

I think we've been consistently good. Very good? We lost to Michigan by 31 just this year. That just doesn't happen to very good, consistent teams. We have failed quite miserably on the elite stage in the Kelly era. I hope you're right about Clemson and will gladly say I was wrong if we beat them. They're elite. The game is at home. Assuming we beat Wisconsin, it could be the equivalent of the 1988 Miami game. We'll see.
The good faith that kelly had built up with many of us who wrote him off after 16 took a major hit with the michigan game this year. He regained some of that by not only the victories but the margins of victories in the impressive closing stretch without stubbing their toe. Kelly has risen this program back to where it is now expected to beat every teams it's supposed to and that is improvement over the previous 20 years. Now he has to take that next step and the only way he can do that is win a game like Clemson.

Because kelly is now beating all the teams hes supposed to I can look at next years schedule and see 10-2 at worst. That shows program improvement to me becuase no longer do I predict 8-4 with a couple losses to teams they should beat. Get to Clemson undefeated and that'll be as excited as I've been for an nd home game since USC in 05 and fsu 93 before that
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