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  #226  
Old 04-08-2020, 03:05 AM
Kelly Gruene Kelly Gruene is offline
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This is a conspiracy theory that was debunked weeks ago. The national review is an ultra-conservative media outlet that gave credence to the Obama birth certificate ordeal. The source of this article stands to benefit financially if this nonsense takes off.

Health orgs and epidemiologists have already given tons of evidence that this virus is not manmade and did not originate in a lab. And ill take their word until i see something that doesnt come from a glorified tabloid with an agenda.
I keep hearing the word ‘debunked’. It’s a great word.
I have not seen anything solid or concrete. Pretty sure we never will. China did not allow outsiders in to investigate or help early. What sources have debunked this story? China? Certainly no US or outside investigators have been allowed to look at the information through anything other than a lens supplied by China.

I never said the virus was man made. I certainly do believe that someone working in the lab could have gotten some of the virus onto something and had it go outside the lab. Not saying it happened purposefully. Accidents do happen at labs though, and this could have been one. Just a virus they were researching perhaps.

National Review has some great reporting and articles. Just because it has a conservative leaning does not make it not credible; that’s similar to saying that because CNN has a liberal leaning it’s not credible.
I get news from left and right leaning sites. You probably do too.

I won’t consider this story to be debunked for another year or so. Once the crushing blow of this has passed and more research by sources from outside China have had access to and fully evaluated all of it.

Last edited by Kelly Gruene; 04-08-2020 at 03:09 AM.
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  #227  
Old 04-08-2020, 06:44 PM
ELDER06 ELDER06 is online now
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Bernieís out and Biden will be the Nominee. Breathing a big sigh of relief, ok with either. Probably voting Trump, but wonít lose sleep if Biden does win.
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  #228  
Old 04-08-2020, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelly Gruene View Post
I keep hearing the word Ďdebunkedí. Itís a great word.
I have not seen anything solid or concrete. Pretty sure we never will. China did not allow outsiders in to investigate or help early. What sources have debunked this story? China? Certainly no US or outside investigators have been allowed to look at the information through anything other than a lens supplied by China.

I never said the virus was man made. I certainly do believe that someone working in the lab could have gotten some of the virus onto something and had it go outside the lab. Not saying it happened purposefully. Accidents do happen at labs though, and this could have been one. Just a virus they were researching perhaps.

National Review has some great reporting and articles. Just because it has a conservative leaning does not make it not credible; thatís similar to saying that because CNN has a liberal leaning itís not credible.
I get news from left and right leaning sites. You probably do too.

I wonít consider this story to be debunked for another year or so. Once the crushing blow of this has passed and more research by sources from outside China have had access to and fully evaluated all of it.

Fair enough. But you should consider that national review was probably waaaay down the list of outlets this guy hawked this story to....and i think that is for a reason. Youll see this story nowhere else for a reason too. It has no credibility.
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  #229  
Old 04-09-2020, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by echo88 View Post
This is a conspiracy theory that was debunked weeks ago. The national review is an ultra-conservative media outlet that gave credence to the Obama birth certificate ordeal. The source of this article stands to benefit financially if this nonsense takes off.

Health orgs and epidemiologists have already given tons of evidence that this virus is not manmade and did not originate in a lab. And ill take their word until i see something that doesnt come from a glorified tabloid with an agenda.
You may want to go talk to MI-6, then.... "Debunked" is a dismissive liberal word that uses the slighted inkling of theory to dispense with arguments that don't fit the narratives liberals like to push, hoping that it stops people dead in their tracks or causes a credibility issue with any continuing discussion. However, if you keep looking, you generally find the truth. MI-6 hasn't stopped looking and has intelligence that this came from an unsecured lab by accident.

This is similar to all of that ugly DNC work done with foreign governments like Ukraine. Liberals love to say all of that is conspiracy that was debunked. Durham is about to blow that up. Have fun with your "debunked" "conspiracies."
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  #230  
Old 04-09-2020, 01:58 PM
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You may want to go talk to MI-6, then.... "Debunked" is a dismissive liberal word that uses the slighted inkling of theory to dispense with arguments that don't fit the narratives liberals like to push, hoping that it stops people dead in their tracks or causes a credibility issue with any continuing discussion. However, if you keep looking, you generally find the truth. MI-6 hasn't stopped looking and has intelligence that this came from an unsecured lab by accident.

This is similar to all of that ugly DNC work done with foreign governments like Ukraine. Liberals love to say all of that is conspiracy that was debunked. Durham is about to blow that up. Have fun with your "debunked" "conspiracies."
You are in talks with MI6? Interesting hobby you have there.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/debunk

I think the word is free for anybody to use.
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  #231  
Old 04-09-2020, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by irishwavend View Post
You may want to go talk to MI-6, then.... "Debunked" is a dismissive liberal word that uses the slighted inkling of theory to dispense with arguments that don't fit the narratives liberals like to push, hoping that it stops people dead in their tracks or causes a credibility issue with any continuing discussion. However, if you keep looking, you generally find the truth. MI-6 hasn't stopped looking and has intelligence that this came from an unsecured lab by accident.

This is similar to all of that ugly DNC work done with foreign governments like Ukraine. Liberals love to say all of that is conspiracy that was debunked. Durham is about to blow that up. Have fun with your "debunked" "conspiracies."
Lol im not a liberal. And i work for the US equivalent, so...
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  #232  
Old 04-09-2020, 04:51 PM
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Lol im not a liberal. And i work for the US equivalent, so...
I was thinking the same thing. From your previous postís, and you serving, I thought it was pretty obvious. Iím glad we are seeing object posts here...
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  #233  
Old 04-09-2020, 10:56 PM
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Lol im not a liberal. And i work for the US equivalent, so...
Regardless, what do ur boys at MI-6 say...ur info that u posted occurred before the MI-6 report.
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  #234  
Old 04-10-2020, 12:47 AM
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Regardless, what do ur boys at MI-6 say...ur info that u posted occurred before the MI-6 report.
Not really sure what they'd say. We are still business as usual with overseas activities that don't involve a particularly bad flavor of flu.

What i was insinuating is that Mr. Tye's assumptions haven't warranted or drawn any attention whatsoever from this side of the pond. And if there was any merit to them, they would have.

If 6 wants to assign resources to run down sole source ramblings from a YouTube star who goes by "C-Milk", that's their prerogative.
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Last edited by echo88; 04-10-2020 at 12:54 AM.
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  #235  
Old 04-11-2020, 08:45 PM
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/u...-response.html

This is quite unbelievable.
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  #236  
Old 04-11-2020, 09:25 PM
Kelly Gruene Kelly Gruene is offline
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It’s true.
No leader of any other country had problems implementing policies. Looks like every European country was ready for this.
Only this country was lacking in preparation.
Only this country had lack of replenishment of supplies over the last two decades.
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  #237  
Old 04-11-2020, 10:06 PM
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Itís true.
No leader of any other country had problems implementing policies. Looks like every European country was ready for this.
Only this country was lacking in preparation.
Only this country had lack of replenishment of supplies over the last two decades.
We call this a straw man argument. I would recommend reading some of those emails and dates and then come back with a rebuttal. A reply like this would suggest you have not read beyond the part that made you uncomfortable i.e the title.

The west in general never took this seriously until it took a Tyson like upper cut to the chin in the form of economic decimation. Thos emails right there show that yes, there were provisional plans for pandemics like this created in 2006 (15 years ago!!) yet basically thrown out the window.

Everyone so how lax Italy was and had a two week head start yet nobody took it seriously.

And now we have the absolute bull **** argument that models over estimated. Give me strength..
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  #238  
Old 04-11-2020, 11:14 PM
Kelly Gruene Kelly Gruene is offline
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Originally Posted by Soko View Post
We call this a straw man argument. I would recommend reading some of those emails and dates and then come back with a rebuttal. A reply like this would suggest you have not read beyond the part that made you uncomfortable i.e the title.

The west in general never took this seriously until it took a Tyson like upper cut to the chin in the form of economic decimation. Thos emails right there show that yes, there were provisional plans for pandemics like this created in 2006 (15 years ago!!) yet basically thrown out the window.

Everyone so how lax Italy was and had a two week head start yet nobody took it seriously.

And now we have the absolute bull **** argument that models over estimated. Give me strength..
You’re right.
I didn’t read the article.
I don’t find it meaningful to get caught up in finger pointing and acting like anything that is printed in any media at the moment is going to be the final say on the matter.
Over the coming years plenty will be written about all of this. Articles in the moment are part of a much larger story. That story is not anywhere near complete.
So, I’ll continue reading and watching on different platforms. I’ll save my thoughts until a time where I believe I have a more complete picture.

Last edited by Kelly Gruene; 04-11-2020 at 11:20 PM.
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  #239  
Old 04-11-2020, 11:16 PM
ELDER06 ELDER06 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soko View Post
We call this a straw man argument. I would recommend reading some of those emails and dates and then come back with a rebuttal. A reply like this would suggest you have not read beyond the part that made you uncomfortable i.e the title.

The west in general never took this seriously until it took a Tyson like upper cut to the chin in the form of economic decimation. Thos emails right there show that yes, there were provisional plans for pandemics like this created in 2006 (15 years ago!!) yet basically thrown out the window.

Everyone so how lax Italy was and had a two week head start yet nobody took it seriously.

And now we have the absolute bull **** argument that models over estimated. Give me strength..
Italian mayors had a social media campaign where citizens were hugging Chinese nationals.
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  #240  
Old 04-11-2020, 11:17 PM
ELDER06 ELDER06 is online now
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Originally Posted by Kelly Gruene View Post
Youíre right.
I didnít read the article.
You canít, itís behind a paywall
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  #241  
Old 04-12-2020, 12:05 AM
Kelly Gruene Kelly Gruene is offline
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You canít, itís behind a paywall
Thats why I didnít read it. I donít have a subscription to the Times.
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  #242  
Old 04-12-2020, 08:06 AM
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Quick synopsis. Many, many people in government, specifically doctors, warned that there was an incoming tsunami of unseen proportions coming back in January and throughout February. They were effectively sidelined and half bake responses were concocted. These are still going on today. Pandemic plans put in place starting in 2006 were ignored and the vital window to limit this was missed hence the mess that is the spread we see today.

This is relevant to what's happening in the very present as many top level officials are still fighting to accept what is reality.

These are verbatim emails and can be presented without comment. See the link below for the high level reads. We are being lied to every day by the leaders of the country.


https://twitter.com/EricLiptonNYT/st...09586905939968
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  #243  
Old 04-12-2020, 01:55 PM
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You canít, itís behind a paywall
It opened just fine for me and I have no subscription...
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  #244  
Old 04-12-2020, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelly Gruene View Post
Itís true.
No leader of any other country had problems implementing policies. Looks like every European country was ready for this.
Only this country was lacking in preparation.
Only this country had lack of replenishment of supplies over the last two decades.
So you are saying socialized medicine is the way to go?!
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  #245  
Old 04-12-2020, 08:32 PM
Kelly Gruene Kelly Gruene is offline
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So you are saying socialized medicine is the way to go?!
Sure!
Works perfectly well in every country thatís done it.
Especially Italy: https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2020/04...-pandemic.html
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  #246  
Old 04-14-2020, 04:14 PM
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Clearly ďdebunkedĒ....

https://www.foxnews.com/world/state-...inese-lab-bats
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  #247  
Old 04-15-2020, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by irishwavend View Post
You must've gotten excited and not read the whole article.

Its not manmade. It didn't come from a lab. Overwhelming evidence supports that. An article discussing the identification of unsafe practices at Wuhan 2 years ago doesnt change anything.

The article clearly says that. More than once. Stop listening at alex jones at 3am.
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  #248  
Old 04-15-2020, 05:39 PM
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You must've gotten excited and not read the whole article.

Its not manmade. It didn't come from a lab. Overwhelming evidence supports that. An article discussing the identification of unsafe practices at Wuhan 2 years ago doesnt change anything.

The article clearly says that. More than once. Stop listening at alex jones at 3am.
Just a point of clarification. While I believe that it is fairly accepted that the virus has come from nature (most likely a bat), a lab may be responsible if they were simply studying the virus and it somehow "escaped" the lab environment and made it into the outside world.

Again, I have no idea or even opinion as to the source. Just pointing out that different people may mean different things when they say it "came from a lab".
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  #249  
Old 04-15-2020, 07:12 PM
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Just a point of clarification. While I believe that it is fairly accepted that the virus has come from nature (most likely a bat), a lab may be responsible if they were simply studying the virus and it somehow "escaped" the lab environment and made it into the outside world.

Again, I have no idea or even opinion as to the source. Just pointing out that different people may mean different things when they say it "came from a lab".
Of course it's possible...especially in China where lab workers might be desperate enough to sell test animals to the wet markets for profit.

My only point is that health care professionals and epidemiologists have largely agreed that the characteristics of the virus indicate that it is a natural virus. That should be enough....they have nothing to gain here.

People are letting conspiracy theories that originate on social media gain traction and spread hysteria in a time where it's easier to do so. And it's getting old.
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  #250  
Old 04-15-2020, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by echo88 View Post
Of course it's possible...especially in China where lab workers might be desperate enough to sell test animals to the wet markets for profit.

My only point is that health care professionals and epidemiologists have largely agreed that the characteristics of the virus indicate that it is a natural virus. That should be enough....they have nothing to gain here.

People are letting conspiracy theories that originate on social media gain traction and spread hysteria in a time where it's easier to do so. And it's getting old.
Who really cares? Itís Chinaís fault regardless.
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