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Old 11-18-2018, 09:49 PM
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Default Officiating with Numbers. ND Opponent - 6th Least penalized in nation

I consistently harp on the officiating situation, so I thought I would put some numbers to my complaints. At the bottom of this you can find a table compiled from two websites tracking penalty yardage.

ND opponents AVERAGE 14.9 yards less in penalties against ND than their season average.

ND's weekly opponent would be the 6th least penalized team in the country, while ND is the 34th most penalized team in the country.

I say hire our own and cheat back... this is shameful.


https://www.teamrankings.com
www.cfbstats.com

Opponent Pen Yards rank Opponent Penalty Yards Penalty Yards Rank Penalty yards per Game Penalty Yards Vs ND Difference
Notre Dame 125 37.5 34 46.2 --- ----
Michigan 93 48.9 105 66.5 52 14.5
Vanderbilt 39 61.3 41 48.4 60 -11.6
Ball State 31 64.2 113 70.3 10 60.3
Wake Forest 74 53.4 38 46.8 23 23.8
Stanford 15 68.7 6 37.7 50 -12.3
VA Tech 124 37.8 68 54.6 41 13.6
Pittsburgh 116 42 110 69.4 80 -10.6
Navy 129 32.6 2 28.7 16 12.7
Florida St 85 50.7 118 72.2 35 37.2
Syracuse 36 62.2 64 53.8 45 8.8
Northwestern 14 68.7 1 27.7 0 27.7

Average Opponent Penalty Yards 53.7

Average Pen Yard 52.4

Opponent Pen Yards rank Opponent Penalty Yards Penalty Yards Rank Penalty yards per Game
Notre Dame 125 37.5 34 46.2

Penalty yards Against ND vs Season Average 14.9
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  #2  
Old 11-18-2018, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon33dn View Post
I consistently harp on the officiating situation, so I thought I would put some numbers to my complaints. At the bottom of this you can find a table compiled from two websites tracking penalty yardage.

ND opponents AVERAGE 14.9 yards less in penalties against ND than their season average.

ND's weekly opponent would be the 6th least penalized team in the country, while ND is the 34th most penalized team in the country.

I say hire our own and cheat back... this is shameful.


https://www.teamrankings.com
www.cfbstats.com

Opponent Pen Yards rank Opponent Penalty Yards Penalty Yards Rank Penalty yards per Game Penalty Yards Vs ND Difference
Notre Dame 125 37.5 34 46.2 --- ----
Michigan 93 48.9 105 66.5 52 14.5
Vanderbilt 39 61.3 41 48.4 60 -11.6
Ball State 31 64.2 113 70.3 10 60.3
Wake Forest 74 53.4 38 46.8 23 23.8
Stanford 15 68.7 6 37.7 50 -12.3
VA Tech 124 37.8 68 54.6 41 13.6
Pittsburgh 116 42 110 69.4 80 -10.6
Navy 129 32.6 2 28.7 16 12.7
Florida St 85 50.7 118 72.2 35 37.2
Syracuse 36 62.2 64 53.8 45 8.8
Northwestern 14 68.7 1 27.7 0 27.7

Average Opponent Penalty Yards 53.7

Average Pen Yard 52.4

Opponent Pen Yards rank Opponent Penalty Yards Penalty Yards Rank Penalty yards per Game
Notre Dame 125 37.5 34 46.2

Penalty yards Against ND vs Season Average 14.9
With our dline we should be on the opposite end of the spectrum here.. frustrating to watch or guys get tackled every other play and no laundry on the field
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Old 11-19-2018, 12:59 AM
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I seem to recall when we were good in the 80s and 90s under Holtz and maybe even before, we had MAC refs. I'd like to see them again. They have no reason to screw us over.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:15 PM
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I find it VERY hard to believe that refs consciously slant their calls in favor of one team over another or to spite a team. Every fan base complains about officiating. We do tend to see a larger variety of tendencies due to our scheduling.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:22 PM
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I find it VERY hard to believe that refs consciously slant their calls in favor of one team over another or to spite a team. Every fan base complains about officiating. We do tend to see a larger variety of tendencies due to our scheduling.
I don't think the general suggestion is that it's done to spite a team but that it's done to benefit a conference.

Here is a study finding evidence of bias...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...-for-your-team

And, no study can account for calls that have not been made....

Then there is this gem which has always stuck with me...
https://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...y-irish-101312
I can't find video of the Golson play but if you can, you will see that Pereira either A) didn't really bother to find the right angle or B) doesn't care to get the right call.

But, what does Pereira have to with anything????
Quote:
From February to June 2011, Pereira was the Pac-10's interim coordinator of officiating, charged with implementing changes in the conference's officiating program. His successor, Tony Corrente, retained Pereira on his staff as a consultant through the Pac-12's 2011–12 football season.[5][6]
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:39 PM
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Just to play devil's advocate, correlation does not necessarily mean causation

We know that teams tend to play up and psyched when playing against ND, so maybe their execution tends to be much better when playing against ND?
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:57 PM
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The NW game is one that sticks out to me, what did we have like 11 to their 1? Iíve only seen that recently in the Pats-Jaguars playoff game.

If thatís what a top 25 team needs to stay within 10 of us at home then I feel real good going forward. Im with everyone on the holding, Okwara gets held almost every second play.

Weíve really had one snoozer game with Book and that was vs Pitt. The sign of a good team is one that gets better as the season goes which is the case this season and not the norm ala 2014, 2015, 2017. You could also make the case Pitt is the most improved team in college football.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:09 PM
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Just to play devil's advocate, correlation does not necessarily mean causation

We know that teams tend to play up and psyched when playing against ND, so maybe their execution tends to be much better when playing against ND?
Perhaps. I don't mind missed calls. Every team gets away with penalties.

I do have issue though with blatant holds that don't get called. Last game Okwara came around the end and literally had his helmet nearly ripped off by the facemask. There are two officials back there. For them to miss it borders on incompetence.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:27 PM
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Perhaps. I don't mind missed calls. Every team gets away with penalties.

I do have issue though with blatant holds that don't get called. Last game Okwara came around the end and literally had his helmet nearly ripped off by the facemask. There are two officials back there. For them to miss it borders on incompetence.
oh totally. I'm definitely one of those harping about all the holding calls on our team

But when you start looking at it on a macro level like the way jon laid it out, causes start to become hazy
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:16 PM
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Perhaps. I don't mind missed calls. Every team gets away with penalties.

I do have issue though with blatant holds that don't get called. Last game Okwara came around the end and literally had his helmet nearly ripped off by the facemask. There are two officials back there. For them to miss it borders on incompetence.
Agree. Missed calls will happen. But there have been some blatant holding calls and/or hands to the face penalties that havenít been called. And I mean blatant!!

These are the ones that can make huge differences in close games.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:38 PM
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Is it possible that...

1) our team plays a style that doesnít result in as many penalties by opposing teams?
2) our coaches donít spend as much time as opposing coaches to understand officiating patterns and take advantage of them?
3) teams with winning records tend to have fewer penalties called against them? Maybe thereís also some correlation between penalties not called in your favor when youíre winning?
4) independent teams as a whole get fewer calls (could easily compare BYU, etc.)
5) teams hated by the general population get worse calls (Alabama should be getting screwed)


I find it very hard to believe officials are purposely favoring a team. But there certainly may be some underlying human behaviors that result in this.
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 97domer View Post
Is it possible that...

1) our team plays a style that doesnít result in as many penalties by opposing teams?
2) our coaches donít spend as much time as opposing coaches to understand officiating patterns and take advantage of them?
3) teams with winning records tend to have fewer penalties called against them? Maybe thereís also some correlation between penalties not called in your favor when youíre winning?
4) independent teams as a whole get fewer calls (could easily compare BYU, etc.)
5) teams hated by the general population get worse calls (Alabama should be getting screwed)


I find it very hard to believe officials are purposely favoring a team. But there certainly may be some underlying human behaviors that result in this.
Go read taht bloomberg article that was linked above. It's a good read.
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:34 PM
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I also noticed that we are penalized about 8 yards more than our opponents average opponent. So we are NET 23 yards down to opponents. and that is before we factor in the no-calls, spots, and ruling on the field bias.

ND needs to get serious about this.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:31 AM
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Go read taht bloomberg article that was linked above. It's a good read.
Thanks for the reminder. I glanced at it earlier but went back and read it tonight. I still think that comparing total penalty yards creates its own bias. What should be measured is 'bad' calls (which, in itself is somewhat subjective.) It's very plausible that top 25 teams get penalized less. Think of the holding calls they are referencing - a team with a better defensive line is going to force more penalties on the O-line. Also, a great O-line is going to have less reason to hold against a bad D-line.

That being said, this article certainly favors the idea that ND gets screwed by penalties. If the general trend is that the better teams and traditional power houses get favored calls and ND has the opposite trend, then it certainly puts ND as a statistically significant anomaly.

Regardless, I think they should have a national reffing organization that's not paid by or managed by the conferences.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:24 PM
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To me, the Pereira bit is the one that stands out the most. I remember thinking at the time, "WTF? Why is he so bent out of shape about an OBVIOUS helmet-to-helmet hit?". The fact that Fox's "officiating expert" went so far as to write an article on how that call was wrong was confusing, to the say the least. Then when I dug a little bit, his ties to the Pac 10 (and the fact that Fox is the official network of the Pac 10) sort of laid things bare.

That is just one incident in a sea of them, but it stands out as a telling example of how the financial side of things could motivate vested interests to influence outcomes.
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